Yes, to Arrival! I would especially like revisiting that, having just finished a wonderful recent book that explores similar ground: The Mountain in the Sea by Ray Nayler. Here, the “alien“ intelligence is emerging among a local population of octopus. Alongside the inquiry into such different modes of communication is an interlaced take on AI, a few years more advanced than where we are now. Much like Richard Powers, Nayler weaves leading edge science into a compelling multithreaded story.
Arrival is my favorite movie of all time. And the short story it's based on is brilliant. I appreciate your take on the theme of language and the examples from other cultures. It makes me wonder if their way of relating to "time" makes their minds less apt than ours to rehash the past and worry about the future...
Yeah, this (post) is brilliant. it's tying in w/some of the Aristotelian approach to physics, esp. the 'actual' vs 'potential' stuff that may turn to illuminate quantum mechanics. And emphatic yes, the movie was great. Rare case (imho) of the movie screenplay being better than the original story.
What might we 'see' if we spoke Hopi-like in terms of actual and potential, manifest and not-yet-manifest. Fascinating stuff.
Great little post, thanks.
(Edit: gotta say, just in case i wasn't already obscure and vague as hell enough already...that this ties interestingly into the Wolfgang Smith stuff on "Vertical Causality" and the realms of space & time, time only, and neither space nor time)
I used ChatGPT to get up to speed on your last reference. Here's what it said:
In most of modern science and storytelling, we’re used to thinking in terms of horizontal causality—one event causes another, like dominoes falling in a straight line through time. But Wolfgang Smith, a physicist and philosopher, proposes something more mysterious and expansive: vertical causality. This idea suggests that some causes don’t come from the past at all, but from a higher order of reality—what he calls the vertical, or metaphysical, axis. In this view, events in our physical world can be shaped not just by prior physical events, but by timeless, meaning-laden realities that “descend” into the temporal realm.
In Smith’s terms, the future isn’t just waiting to be caused—it may already exist in a higher order of being, quietly shaping the present like gravity shaping the flow of a river.
Fair start, but doesn't go *quite* far enough. There are ties to Aristotle/Aquinas (vis a vis physics & observation) and EPR/Bell.
Back to your post/topic -- it's fascinating that Hopi is structured that way (and the heptapod language in Arrival, in a related way...) and, too, the relationship between language and what-we-can-say and reality and what-we-can-see.
Even Judao-Christian Scriptures seem to emphasize the supernatural power of language as the most powerful thing in the universe (the word of God)
Excellent insight, thank you.
Yes and The Tower of Babel
Yes, to Arrival! I would especially like revisiting that, having just finished a wonderful recent book that explores similar ground: The Mountain in the Sea by Ray Nayler. Here, the “alien“ intelligence is emerging among a local population of octopus. Alongside the inquiry into such different modes of communication is an interlaced take on AI, a few years more advanced than where we are now. Much like Richard Powers, Nayler weaves leading edge science into a compelling multithreaded story.
Thanks, Jim. I just started reading it, based on your recommendation.
Arrival is my favorite movie of all time. And the short story it's based on is brilliant. I appreciate your take on the theme of language and the examples from other cultures. It makes me wonder if their way of relating to "time" makes their minds less apt than ours to rehash the past and worry about the future...
Hard to know with Heptapods....
🙂 I think you are kidding. But I was referring to the indigenous languages cited.
Now I understand... if you are so inclined, it might be interesting to seek out a book written by or about Hopi tribe members...
Arabic has a similar idiom for time as Quechua; in front (Bayna Yadayhi) and behind (Khalfihi).
It is a great movie; now I'll have to rewatch it as well.
Yeah, this (post) is brilliant. it's tying in w/some of the Aristotelian approach to physics, esp. the 'actual' vs 'potential' stuff that may turn to illuminate quantum mechanics. And emphatic yes, the movie was great. Rare case (imho) of the movie screenplay being better than the original story.
What might we 'see' if we spoke Hopi-like in terms of actual and potential, manifest and not-yet-manifest. Fascinating stuff.
Great little post, thanks.
(Edit: gotta say, just in case i wasn't already obscure and vague as hell enough already...that this ties interestingly into the Wolfgang Smith stuff on "Vertical Causality" and the realms of space & time, time only, and neither space nor time)
I used ChatGPT to get up to speed on your last reference. Here's what it said:
In most of modern science and storytelling, we’re used to thinking in terms of horizontal causality—one event causes another, like dominoes falling in a straight line through time. But Wolfgang Smith, a physicist and philosopher, proposes something more mysterious and expansive: vertical causality. This idea suggests that some causes don’t come from the past at all, but from a higher order of reality—what he calls the vertical, or metaphysical, axis. In this view, events in our physical world can be shaped not just by prior physical events, but by timeless, meaning-laden realities that “descend” into the temporal realm.
In Smith’s terms, the future isn’t just waiting to be caused—it may already exist in a higher order of being, quietly shaping the present like gravity shaping the flow of a river.
Fair start, but doesn't go *quite* far enough. There are ties to Aristotle/Aquinas (vis a vis physics & observation) and EPR/Bell.
Back to your post/topic -- it's fascinating that Hopi is structured that way (and the heptapod language in Arrival, in a related way...) and, too, the relationship between language and what-we-can-say and reality and what-we-can-see.
Good stuff.